Calculate fees in getblock using BlockUndo data (rpc/rest/zmq)

https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pulls/18772

Host: robot-dreams  -  PR author: robot-visions

The PR branch HEAD was 1298f0fca7 at the time of this review club meeting.

Notes

  • A transaction’s fee is not set explicitly. The fee can be implicitly calculated from the difference between total input value and the total output value.

  • This PR updates the getblock RPC to include an extra “fee” field for transactions whenever:

    • verbosity >= 2
    • Undo data (which can be used for efficient fee calculation) exists for that block
  • We discussed block undo data and how it’s stored on disk in a previous review club meeting.

  • Some extra changes were added to prevent fuzz test failures; we discussed fuzz testing and how it’s used in Bitcoin Core in a previous review club meeting.

Questions

  1. What is CTxUndo?

    • How are we using it for fee calculation?
    • Where else is it used?
    • Why doesn’t a coinbase transaction have Undo data?
  2. What’s the IO cost to read Undo data for a block?

  3. How could we calculate the fee if Undo data didn’t exist for a block, and what’s the IO cost?

    • If there’s a txindex?
    • If there’s no txindex?
  4. What does CHECK_NONFATAL do?

    • What other options are there (e.g. asserts), and when should we use each option?
  5. Knowing the transaction fee is useful, but does only returning it in some circumstances actually provide a better client experience, or is it preferable for clients to always get exactly what they expect?

    • Should we also calculate the fee if Undo data is missing but a txindex is available?
  6. At the moment, the fact that we might return “fee” is undocumented. Is it worth increasing the complexity of the documentation to say “we SOMETIMES return the fee; here’s when we do so”?

  7. We add some extra checks to prevent integer overflow in fuzz tests. But does it make sense for fuzz tests to generate inputs that violate function preconditions?

Meeting Log

  117:00 <robot-dreams> #startmeeting
  217:00 <emzy> hi
  317:00 <elle> hi :)
  417:00 <robot-dreams> Hi everyone, welcome!
  517:00 <amiti> hi!
  617:00 <stacie> hi! first timer here
  717:00 <gloriazhao> hi!
  817:00 <jrawsthorne> Hi
  917:00 <lightlike> hi
 1017:00 <dhruvm> hi!
 1117:00 <robot-dreams> Welcome Stacie!
 1217:00 <gloriazhao> ooo hello stacie so excited to see you here!!!!
 1317:01 <stacie> Thanks everyone! :)
 1417:01 <robot-dreams> Friendly reminder that all questions are welcome! Feel free to jump in at any point
 1517:01 <felixweis> hi
 1617:01 <troygiorshev> hi!
 1717:01 <robot-dreams> Anyone else here for the first time?
 1817:01 <elle> yeah, my first time :)
 1917:01 <robot-dreams> Welcome Elle :)
 2017:01 <jrawsthorne> Second time, first time not being late
 2117:01 <nehan> hi
 2217:02 <robot-dreams> Congrats jrawsthorne and great to have you back!
 2317:02 <robot-dreams> And last quick poll before we get into the questions, who's had a chance to review the PR? y/n
 2417:02 <sunon> y
 2517:02 <elle> y
 2617:02 <troygiorshev> y
 2717:02 <felixweis> y
 2817:02 <stacie> y
 2917:02 <jrawsthorne> y
 3017:02 <@jnewbery> y
 3117:03 <epson121> y
 3217:03 <nehan> yish
 3317:03 <amiti> n! I've taken a look but haven't properly reviewed
 3417:03 <emzy> y
 3517:03 <dhruvm> 0.5
 3617:04 <robot-dreams> Awesome!! Hopefully it was a relatively short / readable change, but I think there are some interesting underlying ideas.
 3717:04 <robot-dreams> All good Amiti, thanks for taking a look!
 3817:04 <robot-dreams> All right, let's jump in.
 3917:04 <robot-dreams> First off, what is `CTxUndo`?
 4017:05 <sipa> hi
 4117:05 <jrawsthorne> utxos spent by a transaction
 4217:05 <sunon> Class containing undo information for a CTransaction and its txins
 4317:05 <dhruvm> It's a convenience data structure used to unlink a block during IBD
 4417:06 <jonatack> hi
 4517:06 <robot-dreams> Excellent! I would agree with all of that
 4617:06 <robot-dreams> How are using `CTxUndo` for fee calculation in the PR?
 4717:06 <felixweis> its a representation of the rev* data in your blocks/ directory. it allows to restore an UTXO in the set if we need to "rewind" the blockchain because a longer branch was found. remember, all spends from the shorter block chain removed the info (amount, bitcoin script)
 4817:08 <dhruvm> If CTxUndo is available at the call site for TxToUniv, we pass it in and use it to compute sum(outputs)-sum(inputs)
 4917:08 <felixweis> CTxUndo got introduced with UltraPrune invented by sipa and shipped in Bitcoin-Qt 0.8
 5017:08 <robot-dreams> dhruvm exactly! And question to anyone, which part of this computation involves the undo data?
 5117:09 <elle> the sum of the value of the inputs
 5217:09 <robot-dreams> elle: yes, exactly
 5317:09 <Paul_R> hi, excuse my tardiness.
 5417:09 <robot-dreams> felixweis thanks for the extra context!
 5517:09 <Paul_R> is there anyway I can read the backlog of this session?
 5617:10 <robot-dreams> hi Paul_R, welcome!
 5717:10 <Paul_R> thx robot-dreams
 5817:10 <robot-dreams> It'll be posted on the website after the session, so you'll be able to see the full log
 5917:10 <Paul_R> ok
 6017:10 <robot-dreams> felixweis: btw thanks for writing the commit that added this!
 6117:11 <felixweis> thanks *you* for picking it back up!
 6217:11 <robot-dreams> Quick question to make sure we're all on the same page, why doesn't a coinbase transaction have Undo data?
 6317:12 <sunon> There are no txins right?
 6417:12 <dhruvm> Because there's no UTXO
 6517:12 <sipa> no effective txins
 6617:12 <elle> It doesnt have an input that needs to be undone
 6717:12 <robot-dreams> sunon dhruvm sipa elle exactly! sounds like we're all on the same page here
 6817:12 <sipa> there is a CTxIn in a coinbase, but it's not actually spending any preexisting UTXO
 6917:12 <sunon> Ah yeah so not a relevant txin
 7017:13 <robot-dreams> An interesting follow-up question (outside the scope of this session) is: what are all the uses of the coinbase CTxIn?
 7117:13 <robot-dreams> And finally, where else is CTxUndo used? dhruvm already mentioned unlinking a block during IBD; is there anything else?
 7217:14 <sunon> Extra nonce space?
 7317:14 <sipa> and BIP34
 7417:15 <sunon> I found it being used in UpdateCoins() in validation but have no idea why to be honest.
 7517:15 <sipa> that's just where it's constructed
 7617:16 <jrawsthorne> For the filter index
 7717:16 <sunon> ah I see
 7817:17 <robot-dreams> sunon: Yup, I agree there's not a lot of context in UpdateCoins itself, but I found looking at where UpdateCoins itself got called to be helpful
 7917:17 <felixweis> BIP34 encodes the block height in the coinbase scriptSig field. so coinbase txids are still unique. previously they sometimes did override old coins.
 8017:18 <jrawsthorne> For previous question, although not related to consensus pools use it to mark their blocks
 8117:19 <robot-dreams> jrawsthorne Nice, that seems like another interesting use of the undo data! Something else we can follow up on if we have time later, "what exactly is the filter index and how does that work"
 8217:19 <robot-dreams> But let's proceed for now.
 8317:19 <robot-dreams> This might be my favorite question for today's session:
 8417:19 <robot-dreams> What's the IO cost to read Undo data for a block?
 8517:19 <Paul_R> by override, could you equally say the over-wrote the old coins? ie. they ceased to exist anymore? seems like i would have heard of that bug by now, so i'm expecting override to not mean overwrite
 8617:20 <Paul_R> @feli
 8717:20 <Paul_R> felixweis
 8817:21 <sipa> Paul_R: read BIP30
 8917:21 <dhruvm> `UndoReadFromDisk` would imply it's not expected to be in memory and is being read from disk when/if the block has not been pruned.
 9017:21 <Paul_R> @sipa ok
 9117:21 <dhruvm> But I haven't actually looked inside that function yet
 9217:22 <robot-dreams> dhruvm: Yeah, I agree with that! We are gonna be hitting disk.
 9317:22 <felixweis> I believe its fairly low thanks to the excellent design of UtraPrune™. we only need to read a single additional file which has around ~100 kB of data per block to get all the amount information of all the txins spend in that particular block.
 9417:23 <dhruvm> And this is only in response to a privileged rpc call, so there's probably no abuse concerns.
 9517:24 <robot-dreams> felixweis exactly!
 9617:24 <dhruvm> We don't need to worry about cascading issues even if the read is slow.
 9717:24 <robot-dreams> dhruvm great point, we probably don't want a P2P message that says "hey peer, read from disk"
 9817:24 <sipa> i mean: that exists
 9917:24 <Paul_R> where can i read more about priveleged rpc calls (ie. examples of such)
10017:24 <sipa> it's called getdata
10117:25 <robot-dreams> sipa: I realized that shortly after I said my previous statement
10217:25 <jrawsthorne> I can get your node to give me the entire blockchain over and over again right
10317:25 <robot-dreams> Yes jrawsthorne! I stand corrected
10417:25 <sipa> Paul_R: he means RPC is only ever exposed to privileged software, so we don't need to worry about DoS potential, i assume
10517:26 <dhruvm> sipa: yes, that's what i meant
10617:26 <robot-dreams> We'll edit that in post :)
10717:26 <sipa> there is no distinction between privileged and unprivileged RPC - it's just that RPC is only intended to be exposed to trusted software
10817:26 <sipa> (it can send a shutdown RPC too...)
10917:26 <Paul_R> ah
11017:27 <robot-dreams> One follow-up question here is, "what are the DoS mitigation mechanisms getdata has that this RPC doesn't"
11117:27 <dhruvm> we mitigate the DoS potential of getdata disk access using peer reputation though, i imagine?
11217:27 <sipa> dhruvm: nope, the only protection that currently exists is just that an attacker would need to waste N bytes bandwidth to make us read N bytes from disk
11317:28 <dhruvm> huh, interesting!
11417:28 <robot-dreams> So it's a matter of symmetry between cost to the attacker and cost to the node?
11517:28 <sipa> (which is one of the reasons why BIP37 was disabled by default - it enabled an attacker to ask for a block to be read from disk without pretty much any bandwidth at all)
11617:29 <robot-dreams> felixweis: going back to IO cost, yup! We read a contiguous section of a `rev?????.dat` file, which contains the serialized `CTxUndo` data (a vector of UTXO info)
11717:30 <robot-dreams> I got an estimate of 64kb by adding up the size of all the rev* files and dividing by the number of blocks. Same order of magnitude as your 100kb estimate.
11817:30 <@jnewbery> there is some (limited) protection from -maxuploadtarget. It's more to protect bandwidth, but I think probably also protects disk reads indirectly
11917:32 <jrawsthorne> Didn't know about that flag
12017:32 <robot-dreams> dhruvm: great point to consider DoS potential and sipa: jnewbery: thanks for the extra context on this!
12117:33 <robot-dreams> Any final thoughts on DoS before we talk about a world without Undo data?
12217:33 <lightlike> sipa: don't we only process a single GETDATA block request each cycle in ProcessMessages - this should mitigate DOS concerns a bit.
12317:33 <robot-dreams> Thanks lightlike!
12417:34 <emzy> How to test this PR manually. Like with bitcoin-cli? I tested "getblock" and will get an error.
12517:34 <sipa> lightlike: somewhat, indeed
12617:34 <robot-dreams> OK moving onto the next question, how could we calculate the fee if Undo data didn’t exist for a block, and what’s the IO cost?
12717:35 <jrawsthorne> If we had txindex we could find each input by txid and output index
12817:35 <emzy> ' bitcoin-cli getblock "$(bitcoin-cli getblockhash 650683)" 2 ' I will get a 'core_write.cpp:251 (TxToUniv) Internal bug detected: 'MoneyRange(fee)''
12917:36 <robot-dreams> emzy: Great catch, thanks for finding that! I definitely want to look into that afterwards.
13017:36 <robot-dreams> jrawsthorne: Great! How does that cost compare to reading `rev?????.dat`?
13117:37 <robot-dreams> And jrawsthorne described the case where we already have a txindex. How could we get the fee if we didn't turn on txindex?
13217:39 <@jnewbery> without an undo file, you'd need to somehow find the txouts in the block files, and they'd be scattered across many blocks
13317:39 <jrawsthorne> A lot more expensive, with undo we can read it all at once but with this we'd have to get each tx individually and then find the correct output
13417:39 <jrawsthorne> Is there a function for just getting a specific output or is it just the whole tx?
13517:39 <robot-dreams> jnewbery: jrawsthorne: right! Even with a txindex that doesn't sound too fun
13617:39 <sipa> jrawsthorne: not even
13717:40 <sipa> you'd need to read through the entire blockchain
13817:40 <nehan> i think you'd have to scan the whole blockchain
13917:40 <dhruvm> So `TxToUniv` seems to have access to `CTransaction`. `CTransaction` has `vins` and `vouts`. `vouts` have amount, but `cTxIn` does not - it points to prevout.
14017:40 <felixweis> i dont think you can find the the prev_out txs without scanning trough every block
14117:40 <robot-dreams> With a txindex: for each spent UTXO we'd need one read from LevelDB, then one read from disk
14217:40 <sipa> indeed, that's exactly what the txindex is for
14317:40 <robot-dreams> sipa: felixweis: Yeah, I'd agree that without a txindex you'd just have to scan
14417:40 <nehan> you could do one scan looking for all the outputs
14517:40 <sipa> without it, you need to reconstruct it from scratch
14617:41 <sipa> nehan: basically building the txindex :)
14717:41 <robot-dreams> All right, so it sounds like using Undo data is a better strategy than "scan the entire blockchain" :)
14817:41 <dhruvm> little bit
14917:41 <dhruvm> :)
15017:41 <felixweis> nehan: yes building a list first of all inputs and then scaning through the chain is a lot mor efficient than the other way around :-)
15117:41 <robot-dreams> OK, going onto some more open-ended and possibly stylistic questions here.
15217:42 <robot-dreams> What does CHECK_NONFATAL do, and how does it compare to other options we might have like asserts?
15317:42 <nehan> question: why not put amounts and/or scriptpks in inputs, besides space? (or is it just space)
15417:42 <robot-dreams> When should we consider using each option?
15517:42 <jrawsthorne> throws a specific exception that is caught by the rpc code and sent as an error in the response
15617:43 <jrawsthorne> if a condition is not met
15717:43 <nehan> given that all nodes store undo data anyway, why not just... put it in the blocks?
15817:43 <sipa> nehan: define "put it in the blocks"?
15917:43 <dhruvm> nehan: when the same data is stored in two places, could it increase the possibility of bugs where the two are inconsistent?
16017:43 <sipa> on disk? in p2p? in commitment structure?
16117:44 <nehan> sipa: good question! hmm. i guess in this case, in the blocks
16217:44 <nehan> that would help with reorgs
16317:44 <sipa> nehan: you haven't answered my question :p
16417:44 <robot-dreams> nehan: Interesting design question! Yeah, "if we were redesigning from scratch would we just put rev????? data right next to block data"
16517:44 <nehan> oh, i meant on disk
16617:45 <felixweis> you mean the blk????? files
16717:45 <sipa> nehan: i'd say arguably we do
16817:45 <sipa> it's just split between blk and rev files
16917:45 <sipa> so that the rev files can be deleted sooner
17017:45 <nehan> what about in p2p?
17117:45 <nehan> i guess the answer to that is bw
17217:45 <stacie> when talking about txindex, is it defined as `block_height:index_of_tx_in_block` or `txid:index_of_output` (in terms of finding more details on a vin). I'm guessing it's the former?
17317:46 <robot-dreams> jrawsthorne: Yup! Returning an error instead of crashing the node.
17417:46 <sipa> nehan: well, that's what utreexo (and cory's predecessor idea to it) do ;)
17517:46 <nehan> sipa: yes, was just thinking of that
17617:46 <Paul_R> @nehan 'bw'?
17717:46 <sipa> bandwidth
17817:47 <nehan> here is cory's UHS idea for those who haven't seen it: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2018-May/015967.html
17917:47 <robot-dreams> OK, next is a "UX" question: Knowing the transaction fee is useful, but does only returning it in some circumstances actually provide a better client experience, or is it preferable for clients to always get exactly what they expect?
18017:48 <felixweis> stacie: index is I believe txid -> block_height
18117:49 <robot-dreams> stacie: Yeah, great question! I agree with felixweis, I think specifically the txindex tells you the file where you can get the block data, as well as some relevant offsets into the file to find the data
18217:49 <robot-dreams> Source: https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/28168/what-are-the-keys-used-in-the-blockchain-leveldb-ie-what-are-the-keyvalue-pair/29418#29418
18317:50 <@jnewbery> the txindex interface takes a txid and returns a blockhash and a CTransactionRef object: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/72affcb16cad45bd9e08ca163b2147fd01b84b70/src/index/txindex.h#L42-L48
18417:50 <lightlike> another question: while this PR shows the fees for each tx: would it maybe be useful to also display the total amount of fees spent in a block in the getblock RPC?
18517:50 <sipa> it's txid -> (block_file_num, offset_of_block_in_file, offset_of_tx_from_block)
18617:50 <@jnewbery> internally, the index actually stores txid->diskpos (ie where in a block file the tx can be found)
18717:50 <sipa> iirc
18817:51 <robot-dreams> sipa: your recollection agrees with what you previously wrote in the linked StackExchange answer above!
18917:51 <felixweis> so pretty much the location of the first byte of the transaction on disk?
19017:51 <elle> lightlike: i think that that can already be implied from the coinbase transaction? coinbaseAmt minus blockreward
19117:52 <nehan> sipa: i don't know what you mean by the third option, "commitment structure". input data is already committed to in a transaction. somewhere else?
19217:52 <@jnewbery> oops actually the name of the object is CDiskTxPos
19317:52 <robot-dreams> lightlike: elle: great points! I don't have enough context to know whether we want to provide the extra convenience of such a calculation, or assume RPC clients can do that on their own
19417:53 <sipa> nehan: this may be a bit of a tangent, but i think it's easiest to think of blocks and transactions as abstract data structures that are defined by their commitment structure (so a transaction is defined by its txid, witness transaction by its wtxid, block by its block hash, ...), and how/what is exactly stored/sent is implementation detail
19517:54 <lightlike> elle: right, that makes more sense :-)
19617:54 <sipa> nehan: so in that sense, sennding input data along with blocks isn't making it part of "the block" - it's just auxiliary data that happens to be sent/stored along with it
19717:55 <robot-dreams> All right, we have 5 minutes left.
19817:55 <dhruvm> robot-dreams: in response to the UX question. when representing the same data in two ways(in this case as fee, and sum(op) - sum(ip)), i worry what happens if a bug makes the two inconsistent. which representation is truth for the client? should a low-level protocol only represent the bare minimum and leave the rest to clients? should the protocol minimize computation needed from clients?
19917:55 <dhruvm> tough question.
20017:55 <robot-dreams> At this point does anyone have any general questions?
20117:55 <@jnewbery> 5 minutes left. Don't be shy!
20217:56 <sipa> dhruvm: what do you mean by representing in that context? the fee is never stored explicitly afaik
20317:57 <jonatack> if anyone's interested, there was a related review club session in April, "Flush undo files after last block write (validation)" https://bitcoincore.reviews/17994
20417:57 <dhruvm> sipa: I mean from the client's perspective. If the fee and sum(op)-sum(ip) ever disagree, the clients should prefer the latter. But explicitly sending them the fee makes it possible that they might not?
20517:57 <felixweis> I'm curious about how people feel about Question 6. Should we just return the fee always and not introduce another "verbosity" level? even if there are speed penatlys for the rpc?
20617:58 <robot-dreams> felixweis: Yeah, very interesting question. On a similar note I'm also curious if people think we should calculate the fee when a txindex (but not block undo data) is available.
20717:59 <@jnewbery> robot-dreams, I don't think that's a realistic scenario. The txindex requires the entire blockchain (i.e. no pruning)
20817:59 <felixweis> It would of course not be possible if you have your node pruned beyond the requested block but then wold you request getblock anyway?
20917:59 <sipa> dhruvm: what is "the fee"
21017:59 <sipa> dhruvm: the fee is defined as sum(out)-sum(in), so i don't know how they could be different
21117:59 <@jnewbery> so if you have txindex, you should also have all the undo files. We only prune undo files when we prune the equivalent block files
21217:59 <robot-dreams> jnewbery: felixweis: fair points!
21318:00 <robot-dreams> All right, we're out of time for today's session.
21418:00 <robot-dreams> Thanks so much everyone for joining!
21518:00 <dhruvm> sipa: yeah i guess it's just my ocd when representing the same data in two ways. I've experienced bugs from that in the past. Perhaps not something to worry about.
21618:00 <robot-dreams> Especially those of you who were able to join us for the first time, welcome again, and I hope to see you around at future sessions!
21718:00 <@jnewbery> Thanks robot-dreams!
21818:00 <felixweis> thanks robot-dreams! and everynone else participating and lurking.
21918:00 <nehan> thanks robot-dreams!
22018:00 <sipa> dhruvm: but i still don't understand what you mean by representing
22118:01 <stacie> thanks robot-dreams:! Learned a lot
22218:01 <robot-dreams> #endmeeting
22318:01 <sipa> the fee isn't stored
22418:01 <emzy> thanks robot-dreams
22518:01 <troygiorshev> thanks robot-dreams!
22618:01 <lightlike> thanks!
22718:01 <sipa> it's computed as sum(out)-sum(in) whenever needed
22818:01 <kristie14> thanks! this was great as a lurker
22918:01 <Paul_R> thanks robot-dreams
23018:01 <elle> thanks robot-dreams!
23118:01 <felixweis> the fee is implicit
23218:01 <sipa> thanks!
23318:01 <dhruvm> sipa: right. if there's a future bug in that logic is what I'm concerned about.
23418:01 <jonatack> thanks robot-dreams, great session!
23518:01 <sipa> dhruvm: in what logic?
23618:01 <elle> \win 1
23718:02 <robot-dreams> dhruvm: Am I understanding that you're talking about "fee for the entire block vs. fee for each individual transaction"?
23818:02 <dhruvm> robot-dreams: no, not that.
23918:04 <robot-dreams> Got it, thanks
24018:05 <emzy> robot-dreams: You have time for my problem?
24118:05 <dhruvm> sipa: I am thinking of a future scenario where the server computes fee=sum(op)-sum(ip) incorrectly due to a bug. Now the client receives fee that is different than the formula.
24218:05 <robot-dreams> emzy: I will in a bit!
24318:05 <felixweis> emzy: i got the same problem
24418:06 <emzy> felixweis: good to know :)
24518:06 <dhruvm> sipa: But I can also see how that's just paranoia. If there's a bug, we'll fix it. It's not going to be at the storage level since like you said we are not storing anything differently.
24618:08 <sipa> dhruvm: who is the server and the client? fees are never sent explicitly
24718:08 <dhruvm> sipa: rpc server, rpc client
24818:09 <sipa> oh
24918:09 <sipa> the rpc client never computes anything
25018:09 <sipa> so there can be discrepancy
25118:09 <sipa> *no
25218:10 <dhruvm> i see. because it merely prints it out.
25318:10 <jonatack> dhruvm: the only client-side computation occurs in src/bitcoin-cli.cpp: -getinfo, -netinfo, -generate
25418:11 <dhruvm> what about when the rpc client is third party software?
25518:11 <sipa> dhruvm: if they implement fee calculation incorrectly, then they have a bug and should fix it
25618:11 <sipa> i don't see how that's any worse (or better) than doing whatever else they're doing incorrectly
25718:11 <dhruvm> right, that's if we let them do the computation. in this case we are choosing to do the computation for them.
25818:12 <sipa> dhruvm: i think you're focussing too much on a consistency problem here; the goal isn't consistency - it's correctness
25918:12 <sipa> ask yourself: would it be better or worse if somehow both the server and the client simultaneously introduce the same "bug"
26018:12 <sipa> if it's better, then it's a consistency problem
26118:12 <sipa> if it's worse, then it's a correctness proble
26218:13 <sipa> the goal isn't that two computations end up with the same result per se - the goal is that the fee is correctly calculated, everywhere, and that implies that all implementations will come to the same conclusion
26318:13 <sipa> but just ending up with the same conclusion isn't the actual goal
26418:14 <dhruvm> oh wow, that's a mindset shift. that makes a TON of sense.
26518:15 <sipa> something like bitcoin block validation is in many ways not a correctness problem - there are plenty of weird deviations from the consensus rules that could be accidentally made, as long as everyone makes the same deviations
26618:15 <sipa> but here "the fee" is a well defined thing, and if you implement something that doesn't match the definition, you're wrong, period
26718:15 <dhruvm> because there's a mutual understanding of the protocol, and that's what matters more than any implementation detail.
26818:15 <emzy> sipa: but someone needs to be the reference.
26918:16 <sipa> emzy: i hereby decree that The Fee is defined as the sum of transaction outputs' values minus the sum of the values of the outputs spent by the transaction's input.
27018:16 <sipa> Done.
27118:16 <emzy> :)
27218:16 <dhruvm> emzy: i think what sipa is saying is that it's well understood sum(op)-sum(ip) is the definition of fee. now, if there's a bug on rpc server, or rpc client, that doesn't matter as much.
27318:16 <emzy> Yes this is a easy one.
27418:17 <dhruvm> Thank you for teaching us, sipa!
27518:17 <sipa> np